tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post3004634632736584449..comments2023-11-03T02:13:10.341-07:00Comments on The Quran and the Bible: A Muslim Investigation: The Crucifixion of Jesus in the Bible and the QuranFaiz S.http://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-41910439349073252012016-01-09T12:06:35.908-08:002016-01-09T12:06:35.908-08:00OK, so I was trying to end this conversation on a ...OK, so I was trying to end this conversation on a polite note, but since you don't seem to know when to say when, I guess I will have to get less polite. STOP POSTING ON THIS BLOG. Go somewhere else to spread your drivel. THANK YOU. Any future posts by you will be deleted.<br /><br />Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-67243179132837156832016-01-09T11:25:41.970-08:002016-01-09T11:25:41.970-08:00Who said anything about being a sister or are you ...Who said anything about being a sister or are you trying to be derogatory ? <br />You seem to not be interested in thinking on matters but only to follow consensus, Im yet to find a scholar who has not studied Christinity who can justify Jesus being a messiah without a second coming.<br />If you feel you are so scholarly and someone else is not simply coz they disagree with your approach to one matter that doesnt give you the right to be arrogant and act like a big shot .Even if you know more than them on 5 matters they could know more than you on 10 other matters. But anyway these conversations should be to learn from them for the future. Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-51670284537774994292016-01-09T11:08:45.413-08:002016-01-09T11:08:45.413-08:00Sister, I grow weary of this pointless conversatio...Sister, I grow weary of this pointless conversation. You can believe your personal opinions all you want. It doesn't change the facts. I will always go with the scholarly evidence and consensus. If you choose to do otherwise, that is your problem. Thank you.Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-24550625604272184722016-01-08T17:00:39.445-08:002016-01-08T17:00:39.445-08:00You said : The ahadith on the second coming are al...You said : The ahadith on the second coming are also mutawatir, no matter how much you want to deny that. Therefore, it is perfectly justified to link them with the ahadith on prayer. If you think the ahadith on prayer are to be interpreted "literally" but the ahadith on Jesus' descent are to be interpreted "allegorically", then you need to provide evidence. Thus far, despite my repeated requests, you have failed to provide this evidence, besides vaguely referring to the minority opinions of some scholars.<br /><br />Apparently to you I have vaguely referred to minority of some scholars. yet the book i mentioned does not mention a minority of scholars but those famous ones you love to quote as well. Unfortunately I don’t have the book in my possession. Do you believe mutawatir ahadith are preserved by God ?<br /><br />You said : Incorrect. I am following the evidence and centuries of scholarly consensus, not personal opinion, as in your case.<br /><br />Consensus Consensus Consensus, The Jews follow consensus of their rabbis teachings ? Is it wrong ? If we want to think about a matter do we simply take consensus without thinking ?<br />Does giving evidence make one a scholar, Does agreeing or disagreeing with ulema make one a scholar? Does voicing thought require one to be scholar and everybody else submissive to the scholar ? You are very quick to call people scholars and not scholars ? I don’t think I tried to insult your intellect. Did the classical ulema that debated call each other no scholar or insult their position. Forgive me if I have said somewhere in these huge exchanges something insulting to u <br /><br />You said : The words used for "raising" is "yub'ʿathu" and "ub'ʿathu", not "mutawaffika". In fact, the word "mutawaffika" is used only ONCE in the Quran (Surah Al-Imran, 3:55), though there are other forms used elsewhere. But, "mutawaffika" is specifically used with regard to Jesus only. See the following: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=wfy#%283:55:6%29 <br /><br />When using yubathu and ub athu its referring to the final resurrection not about any ascension or whether its death or not of jesus. Im not sure what u were hinting at <br /><br />You said : As you acknowledged, the Quran DOES mention some things that are also found in the Bible, such as the Beast, and Gog and Magog. However, the details of these things are found in the sahih ahadith, not the Quran. But if they were not mentioned in the Quran but only in the sahih ahadith, we would still believe in them since sahih ahadith are rigorously authenticated. Your thinking that something in the sahih ahadith must also be mentioned in the Quran before it is to be believed is erroneous and misguided. <br /><br />It mentions the beast and Gog and Magog. Are they more important than the Mahdi and Dajaal ? I would say so <br />Is the whole of Sahih Bukhari and so forth rigourously authenticated ?<br /><br />You said :There are certainly other reasons for Jesus to be called the Messiah. The fact that he was created without a father, and is referred to as a "spirit" and "Word" from Allah (swt) could also show his high status. But in that case, Adam (peace be upon him) also has a high status, in that he was created without a mother or a father and was also created simply by Allah saying "Be", as stated in the Quran:<br /><br />Is Jesus the messiah because he’s referred to as spirit and word from Allah ? Maybe so but do u really think he is the messiah because of titles, The messiah itself is a title. Musa and Ibrahim AS are given titles to show their high status. <br /><br />I think you trying to make it seem as if I rejected all the hadiths of the second comingBenjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-16093986653511300192016-01-08T17:00:11.522-08:002016-01-08T17:00:11.522-08:00All the ulema have said that their interpretation ...All the ulema have said that their interpretation of the Dajaal hadeeths being 100% literal is correct and nothing else can be interpreted. Do you accept them (ulema) to be 100% correct ?<br /><br />You said : "Again, you should look at yourself before accusing others of "poor understanding". Your explanations make no sense. What good will it do to show the Jews in the afterlife that Jesus actually survived the crucifixion but then died afterwards, and then punish them for disbelieving? That would be like punishing a man who never heard the message of Islam and therefore had no warning. That is why Jesus' descent makes sense. It will serve as final proof to the Jews and Christians that their views are wrong. After that, if they still refuse to believe, then they will have no one to blame but themselves. <br /><br />It makes no sense to deny the crucifixion and killing of Jesus if he died shortly afterward, especially if he was actually on the cross for sometime, as you claimed previously. If he didn't die on the cross, but died as a result of his injuries, then why was it so important to deny that he died on the cross? What difference would it make? <br /><br />It makes a very big difference that it rejects the crucifixion. Who said he had died from injuries shortly after. Of course they disbleieved way before the crucifixion. According to you they cant be punished if Jesus had died at that time, Yet the Quran says multiple times that they rejected the signs. The Gospels mention them seeing the signs. You said it would be like punishing a man who never heard of Islam and had no warning. Are you trying to say they were crucifying Jesus because they hadn’t been given the message ? That they were innocent is that what you saying. That they had no reason to believe he is the messiah. That only upon a second coming if they disbelieve will they be punished, those jews at that time will not be experiencing a second coming.<br /><br />You said : "There are many ahadith from the Prophet which state that Allah (swt) has forbidden the Ummah from agreeing on erroneous issues. These are sahih ahadith. Do you acknowledge these ahadith or are they also "allegorical"? Here are some:<br /><br />Now you are trying to say this end times hadith cannot have allegory because so many others are literal . those hadith speak about Jesus killing a pig ? Is that literal to you ? Does it mean he will come to kill a pig Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-56846027219917364702016-01-08T12:39:41.000-08:002016-01-08T12:39:41.000-08:00You said: "You should also remmeber that cert...You said: "You should also remmeber that certain details in these hadiths are very similiar to the christians such as the beast. You must agree that there are either distortions or that the author of the Christians end times had revealed revelation which matches up. If you blindly believe things you will always have this narrow minded approach."<br /><br />Stop accusing others of "narrow minded approach" when you cannot even provide simple evidence for your personal opinions. You are not a scholar and you have proven time and again that you have not done scholarly research on this issue. Instead, you resort to personal attacks.<br /><br />As you acknowledged, the Quran DOES mention some things that are also found in the Bible, such as the Beast, and Gog and Magog. However, the details of these things are found in the sahih ahadith, not the Quran. But if they were not mentioned in the Quran but only in the sahih ahadith, we would still believe in them since sahih ahadith are rigorously authenticated. Your thinking that something in the sahih ahadith must also be mentioned in the Quran before it is to be believed is erroneous and misguided. <br /><br />You said: "If you feel thats the only reason then u have a similiar understanding to the Christian. In order for Jesus to be the Messiah for the Christians they require him to be return and fulfill Jewish expectations, What happens if he doesnt come ? Does the Muslim then say that Jesus was not the messiah? The christian would<br />Yes I agree with you that desceding etc does give him a special status and a reason why he was the messiah howver its not the only one and not even required for him to be called the Messiah. I have written a piece on Why Jesus can be called the Messiah in Islam." <br /><br />There are certainly other reasons for Jesus to be called the Messiah. The fact that he was created without a father, and is referred to as a "spirit" and "Word" from Allah (swt) could also show his high status. But in that case, Adam (peace be upon him) also has a high status, in that he was created without a mother or a father and was also created simply by Allah saying "Be", as stated in the Quran:<br /><br />"Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was." (Surah Al-Imran, 3:59).Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-62909447848532437952016-01-08T12:39:31.032-08:002016-01-08T12:39:31.032-08:00You said: "The Quran goes out of its way to d...You said: "The Quran goes out of its way to deny the CRUCIFIXION and KILLING of Jesus not to prove that he will remain alive till end times then die , but for several reasons<br />- To Protect Jesus from the Jews<br />- To Show the Jews ( perhaps in next world if not now that Jesus survived and was the Messiah )<br />- To prove to us the reader the boast and corruption of the Jews<br />- To refute the historicty and claim of Christians of a crucified and resurrected messiah<br />- To refute the cross theology<br />If you feel that the Quran denys the crucifxion to highlight Jesus being alive and not dying till end times thats a poor understanding."<br /><br />Again, you should look at yourself before accusing others of "poor understanding". Your explanations make no sense. What good will it do to show the Jews in the afterlife that Jesus actually survived the crucifixion but then died afterwards, and then punish them for disbelieving? That would be like punishing a man who never heard the message of Islam and therefore had no warning. That is why Jesus' descent makes sense. It will serve as final proof to the Jews and Christians that their views are wrong. After that, if they still refuse to believe, then they will have no one to blame but themselves. <br /><br />It makes no sense to deny the crucifixion and killing of Jesus if he died shortly afterward, especially if he was actually on the cross for sometime, as you claimed previously. If he didn't die on the cross, but died as a result of his injuries, then why was it so important to deny that he died on the cross? What difference would it make? <br /><br />You said: "You quote the sign of the hour without seriously considering the verses in context with what came before or after or even with variant readings . Agreed that it could be referring to a second coming but once again u show narrow mindedness."<br /><br />Incorrect. I am following the evidence and centuries of scholarly consensus, not personal opinion, as in your case. If you disagree, then show your evidence.<br /><br />You said: "You must then examine every linguistic and contextual passage referring to mutawafika and its derivatives as well as exegetes opinions, however here u show assumptions of passages without studying it deeply.<br />The Quran also talks about another prophet in the exact same way<br />1 Either this is to point out that Jesus will live die and be resurrected just like Yahya or 2 it is to point out that he will live , be raised , return and die then be resurrected"<br /><br />I assume you are referring to Surah Maryam, verses 15 and 33. Let's read them:<br /><br />"So Peace on him [i.e. Yahya] the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life (again)!" (Surah Maryam, 19:15)<br /><br />""So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!" (Surah Maryam, 19:33)<br /><br />The words used for "raising" is "yub'ʿathu" and "ub'ʿathu", not "mutawaffika". In fact, the word "mutawaffika" is used only ONCE in the Quran (Surah Al-Imran, 3:55), though there are other forms used elsewhere. But, "mutawaffika" is specifically used with regard to Jesus only. See the following: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=wfy#%283:55:6%29<br /><br />You said: "You try to quote another hadith which is clear what it could mean and doesnt have many ways to pull an allegory with<br />Howver you should notice that the end times hadeeths have many details which can have allegory."<br /><br />This does not prove anything. First of all, show your proof. Second of all, just because there could be "allegory" in "many details" does not automatically mean that all details are allegory. This is yet another fallacy you have committed. Instead of showing direct evidence, you settle for general statements.<br /><br /><br />Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-72347257783393571372016-01-08T12:38:47.447-08:002016-01-08T12:38:47.447-08:00You said: "You speak about minority and major...You said: "You speak about minority and majority . If 80 % of the world became atheists would that make it the correct belief, Im not saying the ulama consensus is wrong however if you think I have fallacys you should acknowledge that so do you."<br /><br />You say that you are not saying that "the ulama consensus is wrong", yet at the same time you say that a majority consensus doesn't necessarily have to be correct. So which is it?<br /><br />There are many ahadith from the Prophet which state that Allah (swt) has forbidden the Ummah from agreeing on erroneous issues. These are sahih ahadith. Do you acknowledge these ahadith or are they also "allegorical"? Here are some:<br /><br />"Verily Allah will not make Muhammad's community agree on error."<br /><br />""Verily Allah will not make my community -- or Muhammad's community -- agree on error, and Allah's hand is with the largest congregation." Tirmidhi said: "And the meaning of "jama`a" according to the people of knowledge is: the people of jurisprudence, learning, and hadith.""<br /><br />See here for more: http://www.sunnah.org/fiqh/ijma.htm<br /><br />You said: "The Quran does not refer to the specifics of prayer though it gives a brief overview because the message is not on being obsessed with rulings but on ethics,spirituality and god consciousness. If Howver no such thing as the salaah was existing in the Quran but it existed in the hadith i assume your consensus would say its definite to do, even though even if salaah was not mentioned in Quran and only hadith it would be no problem in doing for me atleast. You try to justify second coming hadith with need for hadith to give salaah instructions, you must remember that the hadiths to do with rituals and prayer etc are most mutawatir transmissions and it being the at the peak of authencity. You cannot link the two together. Thats a fallacy."<br /><br />The ahadith on the second coming are also mutawatir, no matter how much you want to deny that. Therefore, it is perfectly justified to link them with the ahadith on prayer. If you think the ahadith on prayer are to be interpreted "literally" but the ahadith on Jesus' descent are to be interpreted "allegorically", then you need to provide evidence. Thus far, despite my repeated requests, you have failed to provide this evidence, besides vaguely referring to the minority opinions of some scholars.<br /><br />You said: "How is my attempt at that fallacious, u show very narrow mindedness and inability to think rationally on matters but rather to take anything as the only interpretation."<br /><br />Oh please. Don't lecture me on "thinking rationally". Rational thinking involves an evidence-based approach. I have given my evidence from scholarly sources. You have given nothing except personal opinions. So who is not "thinking rationally"?Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-49817558041292929242016-01-07T22:43:42.296-08:002016-01-07T22:43:42.296-08:00Sorry there is also a verse in Quran to do with a ...Sorry there is also a verse in Quran to do with a beast. Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-54992957909707665092016-01-07T22:32:05.725-08:002016-01-07T22:32:05.725-08:00You speak about minority and majority . If 80 % of...You speak about minority and majority . If 80 % of the world became atheists would that make it the correct belief, Im not saying the ulama consensus is wrong however if you think I have fallacys you should acknowledge that so do you. <br /><br />The Quran does not refer to the specifics of prayer though it gives a brief overview because the message is not on being obsessed with rulings but on ethics,spirituality and god consciousness. If Howver no such thing as the salaah was existing in the Quran but it existed in the hadith i assume your consensus would say its definite to do, even though even if salaah was not mentioned in Quran and only hadith it would be no problem in doing for me atleast. You try to justify second coming hadith with need for hadith to give salaah instructions, you must remember that the hadiths to do with rituals and prayer etc are most mutawatir transmissions and it being the at the peak of authencity. You cannot link the two together. Thats a fallacy.<br /><br />How is my attempt at that fallacious, u show very narrow mindedness and inability to think rationally on matters but rather to take anything as the only interpretation.The Quran goes out of its way to deny the CRUCIFIXION and KILLING of Jesus not to prove that he will remain alive till end times then die , but for several reasons <br />- To Protect Jesus from the Jews<br />- To Show the Jews ( perhaps in next world if not now that Jesus survived and was the Messiah )<br />- To prove to us the reader the boast and corruption of the Jews<br />- To refute the historicty and claim of Christians of a crucified and resurrected messiah<br />- To refute the cross theology<br />If you feel that the Quran denys the crucifxion to highlight Jesus being alive and not dying till end times thats a poor understanding.<br /><br />You quote the sign of the hour without seriously considering the verses in context with what came before or after or even with variant readings . Agreed that it could be referring to a second coming but once again u show narrow mindedness.<br />You must then examine every linguistic and contextual passage referring to mutawafika and its derivatives as well as exegetes opinions, however here u show assumptions of passages without studying it deeply.<br />The Quran also talks about another prophet in the exact same way <br />1 Either this is to point out that Jesus will live die and be resurrected just like Yahya or 2 it is to point out that he will live , be raised , return and die then be resurrected.<br /><br />You try to quote another hadith which is clear what it could mean and doesnt have many ways to pull an allegory with<br />Howver you should notice that the end times hadeeths have many details which can have allegory.<br /><br />You should also remmeber that certain details in these hadiths are very similiar to the christians such as the beast. You must agree that there are either distortions or that the author of the Christians end times had revealed revelation which matches up. If you blindly believe things you will always have this narrow minded approach.<br /><br />If you feel thats the only reason then u have a similiar understanding to the Christian. In order for Jesus to be the Messiah for the Christians they require him to be return and fulfill Jewish expectations, What happens if he doesnt come ? Does the Muslim then say that Jesus was not the messiah? The christian would <br />Yes I agree with you that desceding etc does give him a special status and a reason why he was the messiah howver its not the only one and not even required for him to be called the Messiah. I have written a piece on Why Jesus can be called the Messiah in Islam.Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-3354143347523901472016-01-07T18:58:23.122-08:002016-01-07T18:58:23.122-08:00No one is fighting here. I am simply pointing out...No one is fighting here. I am simply pointing out the fallacy in your argument. And yes, there IS and always HAS been a consensus on this issue. I am not denying there were alternative interpretation. But what you are not understanding is that these interpretations were in the MINORITY. The majority view has always been that the ahadith that speak about the descent of Jesus, the Dajjal and Imam Mahdi are all literal and have no "allegorical" meanings. <br /><br />You asked me to read the book, which I will be glad to. But that doesn't happen overnight, and so I asked you to provide the evidence for why you feel these ahadith are "allegorical".<br /><br />See the following link which shows how the majority of scholars, including the most famous and respected scholars, treated these ahadith:<br /><br />https://m.facebook.com/Qnoob/posts/873338876085973<br /><br />Among the scholars who represent the majority are such beloved scholars as Imam Abu Hanifa, Ibn Kathir, Abu Dawud, Ibn Hanbal, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim. That is a pretty impressive list.<br /><br />You failed to refute my referral to why the Quran refers to the importance of prayer yet tells us nothing about how to perform the prayer. Why was it left to the Sunnah to establish that? How do you pray?<br /><br />Your attempt to divert to the alternative meaning of "mutawaffika" is also fallacious because as I already explained, the Quran went out of its way to specifically DENY that Jesus was crucified and killed. Why would it do that if Jesus actually died at some point after he was saved from the cross? What point would that make? <br /><br />So let's look at the evidence:<br /><br />1. The Quran refers to Jesus as a "sign of the hour".<br />2. The Quran denies that Jesus was crucified and killed.<br />3. The Quran affirms that Allah "raised" him to Himself. It doesn't explicitly say that Jesus died.<br />4. The Quran also refers to Jesus' birth, death and resurrection on the Day of Judgment.<br /><br />Taken together, there is no doubt that Jesus did not die. But since the Quran does speak of his eventual death, the only possible interpretation is that Jesus must return and then die, as the sahih ahadith very clearly state.<br /><br />I still have to yet to see why we should read those ahadith in an "allegorical" fashion. Where is the allegory in the following ahadith:<br /><br />By Him Whose Hand is my life, the son of Mary (Jesus) will certainly invoke the name of God for Hajj or for Umrah, or for both, in the valley of Rawha. (Sahih Muslim)<br /><br />"It [the Day of Judgment] will not come until you see ten signs," and [in this connection] he mentioned the smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the rising of the Sun from the west, the descent of Jesus son of Mary… (Sahih Muslim)<br /><br />By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary [Jesus] will shortly descend amongst you people as a just ruler. (Sahih al-Bukhari)<br /><br />Jesus son of Mary would then descend and their [Muslims'] commander will invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some [amongst you]. This is the honor from God for this Ummah [nation]. (Sahih Muslim)<br /><br />How will you be when the some of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Qur'an? (Sahih al-Bukhari)<br /><br />To answer your question, I think that since Jesus is the only person to be given the title "Al-Masih" in the Quran and Ahadith, he has some special status. What other status could that be other than what the ahadith state about his descent to kill the Dajjal and to rule according to the Laws of Islam? Why do you think he was the Messiah?Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-54746158773701888402016-01-06T13:02:18.398-08:002016-01-06T13:02:18.398-08:00You say consensus when so many of the exegetes the...You say consensus when so many of the exegetes themselves differed on which interpretation is correct to the sign of the hour. You only see one angle of it being literal coz u think of hadith in a small minded view. I said read the book as it provides various scolars and their views, not one scolar who wrote the book and HIS views. However you feel u know everything about hadith and so dont feel the need to read it. Im not here to fight brother Faiz. <br />Who said I accept the alternate view. Im open to view. <br />The Quran Leaves out alot of details, However it mentions time and again topics related to do with judgement and the resurrection. Would even a mention of any of these things not been imprtant. Maybe not , God decided to leave it to the Hadith.<br /><br />You said if its allegorical why didnt it just say that. The Quran talks about the hand of God, the face etc. It doesnt say its allegorical. We use our knowledge of Tawhid and the quraanic teachings to understand that. We dont say why doesnt it say its allegorical. You say I dont explain to you yet Ive clearly asked you to read the book and you will understand the type of interpreatations.<br /><br />Yes it refers to the death. That verse can also lead to problems with the second coming with what it means. if the arabic word used to say raised up means he had died at the ascension then its a problem. That then means people have to understand the words used which is mutawaffika and its contexts. <br />Answer this question <br />Is a Second coming necessary to prove that Jesus AS is the messiah according to uBenjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-57200127965843314592016-01-06T10:29:39.964-08:002016-01-06T10:29:39.964-08:00How else would Jesus be a "sign of the hour&q...How else would Jesus be a "sign of the hour" if he was not going to return? You're still not explaining what other "understanding" there could be. How exactly is his descent supposed to be allegorical?<br /><br />You criticize me for what "an Islamic scholar gives [me]" but then you turn around and then suggest that I read a book written by another scholar whose views you happen to agree with. Why do you so easily accept the alternative view but question the near consensus (ijma) on the literal descent of Jesus that has been the majority view for centuries? It's just what I said before. The only "controversy" is due to some modern scholars trying to reinterpret the issue with modern biases. <br /><br />The Quran leaves out a lot of details, in case you haven't noticed. For example, it says that Muslims should pray and that prayer is central to iman. Yet, the Quran does not tell us how to pray. That information was left for the Sunnah. Just because the Quran does not talk about certain things does not mean we don't have to believe in it. This is a very misguided view.<br /><br />The word "dajjal" means impostor. It refers to a single person. But the ahadith also mention that there would be lesser dajjals that would arise from the Ummah. These "dajjals" would all claim to be prophets. We have seen many examples throughout history. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and Rashad Khalifa are two examples. <br /><br />If the Dajjal was supposed to represent some "allegorical" term, then why didn't the Prophet just say that? Why did he instead describe the Dajjal as a person, as in the following hadith:<br /><br />"Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape."<br /><br />You keep insinuating that there is some other hidden or "allegorical" meaning, yet you don't explain what it is or how you came to that interpretation. As I said, the onus is on you. <br /><br />By the way, the Quran also refers to Jesus' death, yet we both know that it also explicitly states that he did not die on the cross and that Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) raised him to Himself. How will Jesus die if he never died previously? The answer is he will die after his descent. The ahadith state that he will rule for 40 years and then die.<br /><br />Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-87133198561390129172016-01-05T21:10:00.899-08:002016-01-05T21:10:00.899-08:00What does sign of the hour mean, Does a sign of th...What does sign of the hour mean, Does a sign of the hour only mean someone descending and it signals end times now , then thats a superficial understanding. You havent understood the theological implications that scholars throughout the centuries have puzzled with regarding this second coming, You believe in anything an islamic scholar gives you. I would suggest you read Islams Jesus, That provides very interesting information on scholars views of whether it is allegorical or literal. Why would the Quran leave out details of people so important such as the Dajjal, the Mahdi, . If you think Dajjaal only means one individual then you dont understand what the term isBenjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-89410475040897159632016-01-05T14:25:17.072-08:002016-01-05T14:25:17.072-08:00How is the Quran "vague"? It specifical...How is the Quran "vague"? It specifically refers to Jesus as a "sign of the hour". What does that refer to?<br /><br />Taken together with the sahih ahadith, there is no doubt that the second coming is literal and not "allegorical". Why would the Prophet Muhammad have decided to be "allegorical" with something so important? What exactly would an "allegorical" second coming entail? The onus is on you to explain since you are questioning the traditional belief of the majority of Islamic scholars.Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-21922811161135036442016-01-05T13:50:40.132-08:002016-01-05T13:50:40.132-08:00Actually it is just as you said, interpretations o...Actually it is just as you said, interpretations of people.<br />However it is a controversial issue as the Quran is vague on this and it doesnt really state that. Im not denying the second coming but in order to understand those hadiths the history of the Muslim Christian world has to be analyzed. You cannot just make a hadith infallible because the isnad is perfect. It may not even be a literal second coming but a allegorical one coz remember many of the prophet SAW sayings were very deep.Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-48619942562289506902016-01-05T11:33:40.408-08:002016-01-05T11:33:40.408-08:00The second coming is not a controversial issue. T...The second coming is not a controversial issue. The vast majority of Islamic scholars have accepted that the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) will return. It is established in the Quran and sahih ahadith. The issue has only become "controversial" in modern times due to the misguided interpretations of some people.<br /><br />I do agree that the substitution theory is just one possibility. We don't know what exactly happened and how Jesus (peace be upon him) was saved. All we know is that he was saved and that he will return, as both the Quran and Sunnah affirm. Faiz S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04397185181754199451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-25859080822510089652015-12-28T10:14:52.654-08:002015-12-28T10:14:52.654-08:00Good essay but that sign of the hour verse has var...Good essay but that sign of the hour verse has various interpretations and is quite deep. and the second coming is a controversial issue. You need to read more on that. As for the substitute theory we cannot fully say if Isa AS was not on the cross. Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17678642941648947833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6611656694539409003.post-90428906001344068432015-05-19T09:22:51.785-07:002015-05-19T09:22:51.785-07:00download Quran and Bible in pdf for all people who...download Quran and Bible in pdf for all people who like <a href="http://pdfbookspot.com/" rel="nofollow"> holy books</a>.and people who want to read holy books in pdf.<br />Fawad umairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07813686753223041922noreply@blogger.com